Trinity and Oneness - Revision history

Admin: Redirected page to Oneness

2013-06-07T05:07:54Z

Redirected page to Oneness

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	~~<div style="float:left; width:194px; padding:.3em 0;margin:2px 2px 0; background-color:#cedff2">[[The Godhead]]</div>~~
	~~<div style="float:left;width:196px; font-weight:bold; background-color:#cedff2; color:#000; padding:.3em 0; border:2px solid #B8C7D9; border-bottom:0; font-size:130%">[[Trinity and Oneness]]</div>~~
	~~<div style="float:left; width:194px; padding:.3em 0;margin:2px 2px 0; background-color:#cedff2">[[William Branham on the Godhead\|Quotes]]</div>~~
	~~<div style="float:left; width:194px; padding:.3em 0;margin:2px 2px 0; background-color:#cedff2">[[Questions and answers on the Godhead\|Questions and Answers]]</div>~~
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	~~William Branham's doctrine is a bridge between the Oneness and Trinitarian doctrines, sometimes agreeing with and sometimes challenging the conclusions of these established doctrines.~~

	~~In the sermon '''''~~[http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=761 The Godhead Explained]''''' William Branham tells when he was confronted by the Assemblies of God (Trinitarian) and the United Pentecostal Church (Oneness) and forced to clearly define his doctrine. At the end of their discussion, William Branham had both representatives acknowledge that the other had the Holy Spirit. He then explained his method of baptism, which both representatives accepted. In this same sermon, William Branham tells of another confrontation with a UPC minister. This minister said ''"You know what we are going to do? We are drawing a little ring and drawing you right out of our circle."'' William Branham responded, ''"If you draw me out, I will draw you back in."''

	~~<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">The Godhead and Respect</div>~~

	In the past, some Christians in positions of power have persecuted heretics (or anyone who disagrees with their own favourite doctrine). But persecuting heretics is as spiritual as stoning the good Samaritan. The treatment of the Cathars at the hands of the Catholics, most notably in the massacre in Beziers in 1209 A.D., is a historic example of this persecution.

	The Apostle Paul wrote about people who ''"hold the truth in unrighteousness"'' (Romans 1). He describes people who understand the Godhead correctly, but still choose to live a life of corruption. Paul’s final description of these individuals is ‘unmerciful’, which is an apt description of Arnaud-Amaury, the Catholic ambassador to the Cathars of Bezier, who declared “Kill them all, the Lord will recognise His own.”

	Jesus taught that only those who had a pure heart would see God (Matthew 5:8). Jesus’ zeal for the condition of the heart was matched only by his zeal for the Temple of God, driving out the moneychangers and saying, “My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.” (Matthew 21:13) The temple was a place designed by God for worship, and is a symbol of Jesus Christ – through whom we have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


	~~<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">Problems with the doctrine of the Trinity</div>~~
	[~~[Image:3people.jpg\|thumb\|150px\|A misleading impression of the Trinity (by Fridolin Leiber) as "person" does not mean "individual".]]~~
	As evidence that the Catholic Church has not always believed the Trinity, the doctrine of Callixtus I, the Bishop of Rome (i.e., Pope) between 217 – 222 A.D. and a saint of the Roman Catholic Church, is recorded as follows:

	:''“For the Father, who subsisted in the Son Himself, after He had taken unto Himself our flesh, raised it to the nature of Deity, by bringing it into union with Himself, and made it one; so that Father and Son must be styled one God, and that this Person being one, cannot be two.”'' ~ Hippolytus, the Refutation of all Heresies: Chapter XXIII

	While a familiar phrase to describe the Trinity is “God in Three Persons”, Callixtus I declared that God is one Person, not more. The origins of the notion “God in three persons” traces back to a man named Valentinus, who was recognized as a heretic by the early church fathers.

	:''“Valentinus, the leader of a sect, was the first to devise…the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons – father, son, and holy spirit.”'' ~ Marcellus of Ancyra, On the Holy Church, 9

	Early Christians who did not follow the doctrine of the Trinity are often referred to as ‘Modalists’ by Trinitarians. NewAdvent.org (a Catholic encyclopedia) describes ‘Modalists’ as those who “exaggerated the oneness of the Father and the Son so as to make them but one Person.” NewAdvent.org discloses that the Latin word for person ('''''“persona”''''') was originally used to denote a mask worn by an actor, but then uses commentary from Boethius (480 – 524 A.D.) and St. Tomas of Aquinas (1225 – 1274 A.D) to explain how the Latin language evolved so that the word ‘persona’ meant 'individual' at the time of the First Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D. The reason for this change in definition is critical, because if ‘persona’ had meant a role of an actor in 381 A.D., the members of this council would have been Modalist rather than Trinitarian.

	~~Callixtus I doctrine was further recorded as follows:~~

	:''“there is one Father and God, viz., the Creator of the universe, and that this (God) is spoken of, and called by the name of Son, yet that in substance He is one Spirit. For Spirit, as the Deity, is, he says, not any being different from the Logos, or the Logos from the Deity; therefore this one person, (according to Callistus,) is divided nominally, but substantially not so.”'' ~ Hippolytus, the Refutation of all Heresies: Chapter XXIII

	Logos is Greek for “Word” (see John 1). When Callixtus I describes the Spirit as “not any being different from the Logos” he is saying that the Spirit and the Logos are the same being. By this definition Callixtus I was an unorthodox Modalist, saying “this Person” in reference to the Father and Son, while a man recognized by the early church fathers as a heretic (Valentinus) might now be considered orthodox in his understanding of the Godhead. Based on Colossians 2:9, “God in one person” is a more fitting description of Jesus Christ, the temple of God.

	In practice, a church member may describe the Trinity as being like “three grapes in a bunch” or like “ice, water and steam” – because these are the kind of explanations taught by Sunday Schools. What is interesting is that the first analogy is Trinitarian, while the second definition is Oneness.


	~~{\|style="background-color:#F0DCC8; border:1px #E8B399 solid; text-align:center;"~~
	\|''God didn't have three people up there, and He sent one of them, His Son. It was God, Himself, come in the form of a Son. A son has a beginning, and the Son had a beginning. That, some of you dear Catholic people, I got your book, Facts Of Our Faith, said, "The Eternal sonship of God." How you going to express that word? How you going to make it have sense? How can it be Eternal? That's not the Bible. That's your book, "Eternal sonship." They don't... That word is not right. For, anything that's a son had a beginning, and Eternal has no beginning, so it isn't Eternal sonship. Christ become flesh and dwelt among us. He had a beginning. Wasn't no Eternal sonship. It's the Eternal Godhead, not sonship. Now, He come to redeem us, and He did redeem us.'' (William Braham, Sermon: Hebrews Ch. 5 & 6, September 8, 1957)
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	~~<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">Problems with the Oneness doctrine</div>~~

	~~[[Image:FatherJesus.jpg\|thumb\|150px\|An extreme Oneness t-shirt from fatherjesus.com~~]]
	~~Oneness Christians maintain that there is no fundamental "threeness" to God, and consider it an injustice to speak of God as a "person".~~

	In contrast to this, William Branham, taught that there is a three-fold person of God. This is why God made an individual when he created something in his image, and is why the temple has three separate parts (remember that Jesus also called his body a "temple"). Commenting on the Apostle Paul's prayer that ''"your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"'', (I Thess. 5:23)", Irenaeus of Lyons (d. 202 A.D.) said,

	:''Now what was his object in praying that these three--that is, soul, body, and spirit-- might be preserved to the coming of the Lord, unless he was aware of the future reintegration and union of the three, and that they should be heirs of one and the same salvation? For this cause also he declares that those are "the perfect" who present unto the Lord the three component parts without offence. Those, then, are the perfect who have had the Spirit of God remaining in them, and have preserved their souls and bodies blameless, holding fast the faith of God, that is, that faith which is directed towards God, and maintaining righteous dealings with respect to their neighbours.'' (Chapter VI, Book V, Irenaeus against Heresies, Ante-Nicene Fathers)

	William Branham often said statements such as, “God is not one like your finger” (Sermon: Lord, Show us the Father, Sept 7, 1953). This appears to be directed at doctrines he was hearing among the people at the time, even though this is not the current doctrine of the United Pentecostal Church. Websites such as FatherJesus.com are evidence of this extreme Oneness view that Jesus is God the Father. In contrast, William Branham taught that there is a threefold being to God, but God is not three individuals nor so singular that the Son of God is God the Father.


	~~{\|style="background-color:#F0DCC8; border:1px #E8B399 solid; text-align:center;"~~
	\|''I do not believe that Jesus could be His own father. I believe that Jesus had a Father, and that was God. But God dwelled and tabernacled in this body called Jesus, and He was Emmanuel: God with us. And there's no other God besides this God. He is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And the Name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost... Father: the Lord, Son: Jesus, Holy Ghost: Logos, Spirit of God. Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Lord Jesus Christ; that's Him. And in Him dwelled the Fullness of the Godhead bodily.'' (William Branham, Sermon: Q&A, June 28, 1959)
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	The biggest problem with saying “I believe God is in three persons” or “I believe in Oneness” is that these doctrines relate to significant denominations, and may change over time – just like the meaning of the word “person” has changed since the third century A.D. The Bible, however, will not change. As a result of this, the most essential elements in maintaining correct doctrine are access to an accurate translation of the Bible, prayer, and fellowship.


	~~{{Portal Navigation}}~~
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Believethesign at 06:58, 19 January 2012

2012-01-19T06:58:00Z

Believethesign at 06:47, 19 January 2012

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Believethesign at 06:42, 19 January 2012

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-This article is a short comparison of some key factors of Trinitarian, Oneness, and Biblical Christianity.  William Branham disagreed with both Trinitarianism and Oneness - and taught that the truth was in the middle ground between them. [http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=761 Click here to read William Branham's sermon "The Godhead Explained"].
+William Branham's doctrine is a bridge between the Oneness and Trinitarian doctrines, sometimes agreeing with and sometimes challenging the conclusions of these established doctrines.
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 <div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">The Early Church of Rome did not believe the doctrine of the Trinity</div>
-[[Image:3people.jpg|thumb|150px|An artists impression of the Trinity (Fridolin Leiber)]]
 As evidence that the Catholic Church has not always been Trinitarian, the doctrine of the Bishop of Rome, Callixtus I, who was canonized as a saint by the Catholic Church, is summarized below.  Note that this summary is by Hippolytus, an early trinitarian and dissenter from the Church of Rome:
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Believethesign at 01:03, 4 May 2011

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 |Biblical
-|Jesus Christ, the fullness of the Godhead bodily, born of a virgin and anointed for a purpose.  (See also, [[Son of God|Son of God.]])
+|Jesus Christ, the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and born of a virgin and anointed for a purpose.  (See also, [[Son of God|Son of God.]])
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 ::(Hippolytus, the Refutation of all Heresies: Chapter XXIII)
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Believethesign at 01:00, 4 May 2011

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← Older revision		Revision as of 01:00, 4 May 2011
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	\|This article is a short comparison of some key factors of Trinitarian, Oneness, and Biblical Christianity. William Branham disagreed with both Trinitarianism and Oneness - and taught that the truth was in the middle ground between them. [http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=761 Click here to read William Branham's sermon "The Godhead Explained"].		\|
			This article is a short comparison of some key factors of Trinitarian, Oneness, and Biblical Christianity. William Branham disagreed with both Trinitarianism and Oneness - and taught that the truth was in the middle ground between them. [http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=761 Click here to read William Branham's sermon "The Godhead Explained"].


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			[[Image:FatherJesus.jpg\|thumb\|150px\|A t-shirt from fatherjesus.com]]
	{\| class="wikitable"		{\| class="wikitable"
	\|+ <div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">Unresolved issues with Doctrines</div>		\|+ <div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">Unresolved issues with Doctrines</div>
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	\|~~Jesus (~~The ~~Creator)~~		\|The One God manifested as the creator.
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	\|~~Jesus (~~the ~~Redeemer)~~		\|The One God manifested as the redeemer.
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	\|~~Jesus (~~the ~~Regenerator)~~		\|The One God manifested as the indwelling Spirit.
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	<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">The Early Church of Rome did not believe the doctrine of the Trinity</div>		<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">The Early Church of Rome did not believe the doctrine of the Trinity</div>

			[[Image:3people.jpg\|thumb\|150px\|An artists impression of the Trinity (Fridolin Leiber)]]
	As evidence that the Catholic Church has not always been Trinitarian, the doctrine of the Bishop of Rome, Callixtus I, who was canonized as a saint by the Catholic Church, is summarized below. Note that this summary is by Hippolytus, an early trinitarian and dissenter from the Church of Rome:		As evidence that the Catholic Church has not always been Trinitarian, the doctrine of the Bishop of Rome, Callixtus I, who was canonized as a saint by the Catholic Church, is summarized below. Note that this summary is by Hippolytus, an early trinitarian and dissenter from the Church of Rome:

Believethesign at 19:20, 4 November 2010

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	\|[[Godhead\|What is God? <br> (The Godhead)]]		\|[[Godhead\|What is God? <br> (The Godhead)]]
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Believethesign at 01:49, 4 November 2008

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	\|Oneness (modalism) began with the teachings of Sabellius, who was a member of the church of Rome under Bishop Zephyrinus (199-217 AD) and Bishop Callixtus I (217-222 AD. Callixtus I excommunicated Sabellius as a heretic as a result of this doctrine.		\|Oneness (modalism) began with the teachings of Sabellius, who was a member of the church of Rome under Bishop Zephyrinus (199-217 AD) and Bishop Callixtus I (217-222 AD). Callixtus I excommunicated Sabellius as a heretic as a result of this doctrine.
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Believethesign at 01:49, 4 November 2008

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	\|~~Unitarianism~~ (modalism) began with the teachings of Sabellius, who was a member of the church of Rome under Bishop Zephyrinus (199-217 AD) and Bishop Callixtus I (217-222 AD. Callixtus I excommunicated Sabellius as a heretic as a result of this doctrine.		\|Oneness (modalism) began with the teachings of Sabellius, who was a member of the church of Rome under Bishop Zephyrinus (199-217 AD) and Bishop Callixtus I (217-222 AD. Callixtus I excommunicated Sabellius as a heretic as a result of this doctrine.
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Believethesign at 13:04, 10 October 2008

2008-10-10T13:04:36Z

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	\|This article is a short comparison of some key factors of Trinitarian, Oneness, and Biblical Christianity:		\|This article is a short comparison of some key factors of Trinitarian, Oneness, and Biblical Christianity. William Branham disagreed with both Trinitarianism and Oneness - and taught that the truth was in the middle ground between them. [http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=761 Click here to read William Branham's sermon "The Godhead Explained"].

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:58, 19 January 2012
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	William Branham's doctrine is a bridge between the Oneness and Trinitarian doctrines, sometimes agreeing with and sometimes challenging the conclusions of these established doctrines.		William Branham's doctrine is a bridge between the Oneness and Trinitarian doctrines, sometimes agreeing with and sometimes challenging the conclusions of these established doctrines.

	In the sermon '''''[http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=761 The Godhead Explained]''''' William Branham tells when he was confronted by the Assemblies of God (Trinitarian) and the United Pentecostal Church (Oneness) and forced to clearly define his doctrine. At the end of their discussion, William Branham had ~~boht~~ representatives acknowledge that the other had the Holy Spirit. He then explained his method of baptism, which both representatives accepted. In this same sermon, William Branham tells of another confrontation with a UPC minister. This minister said ''"You know what we are going to do? We are drawing a little ring and drawing you right out of our circle."'' William Branham responded, ''"If you draw me out, I will draw you back in."''		In the sermon '''''[http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=761 The Godhead Explained]''''' William Branham tells when he was confronted by the Assemblies of God (Trinitarian) and the United Pentecostal Church (Oneness) and forced to clearly define his doctrine. At the end of their discussion, William Branham had both representatives acknowledge that the other had the Holy Spirit. He then explained his method of baptism, which both representatives accepted. In this same sermon, William Branham tells of another confrontation with a UPC minister. This minister said ''"You know what we are going to do? We are drawing a little ring and drawing you right out of our circle."'' William Branham responded, ''"If you draw me out, I will draw you back in."''


	<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">The Godhead and Respect</div>		<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">The Godhead and Respect</div>

	In the past, Christians in positions of power have ~~routinely~~ persecuted heretics. But persecuting heretics is as spiritual as stoning the good Samaritan. The treatment of the Cathars at the hands of the Catholics, most notably in the massacre in Beziers in 1209 A.D., is a historic example of this persecution.		In the past, some Christians in positions of power have persecuted heretics (or anyone who disagrees with their own favourite doctrine). But persecuting heretics is as spiritual as stoning the good Samaritan. The treatment of the Cathars at the hands of the Catholics, most notably in the massacre in Beziers in 1209 A.D., is a historic example of this persecution.

	The Apostle Paul wrote about people who ''"hold the truth in unrighteousness"'' (Romans 1). He describes people who understand the Godhead correctly, but still choose to live a life of corruption. Paul’s final description of these individuals is ‘unmerciful’, which is an apt description of Arnaud-Amaury, the Catholic ambassador to the Cathars of Bezier, who declared “Kill them all, the Lord will recognise His own.”		The Apostle Paul wrote about people who ''"hold the truth in unrighteousness"'' (Romans 1). He describes people who understand the Godhead correctly, but still choose to live a life of corruption. Paul’s final description of these individuals is ‘unmerciful’, which is an apt description of Arnaud-Amaury, the Catholic ambassador to the Cathars of Bezier, who declared “Kill them all, the Lord will recognise His own.”
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	<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">Problems with the doctrine of the Trinity</div>		<div style="border-bottom:1px #B87333 solid; text-align:center; font-size:140%; padding:1px; margin:1px;">Problems with the doctrine of the Trinity</div>
	[[Image:3people.jpg\|thumb\|150px\|~~An artists~~ impression of the Trinity (Fridolin Leiber)]]		[[Image:3people.jpg\|thumb\|150px\|A misleading impression of the Trinity (by Fridolin Leiber) as "person" does not mean "individual".]]
	As evidence that the Catholic Church has not always believed the Trinity, the doctrine of Callixtus I, the Bishop of Rome (i.e., Pope) between 217 – 222 A.D. and a saint of the Roman Catholic Church, is recorded as follows:		As evidence that the Catholic Church has not always believed the Trinity, the doctrine of Callixtus I, the Bishop of Rome (i.e., Pope) between 217 – 222 A.D. and a saint of the Roman Catholic Church, is recorded as follows:

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	Oneness Christians maintain that there is no fundamental "threeness" to God, and consider it an injustice to speak of God as a "person".		Oneness Christians maintain that there is no fundamental "threeness" to God, and consider it an injustice to speak of God as a "person".

	In contrast to this, William Branham, taught that there is a three-fold person of God. This is why God made an individual when he created something in his image, and is why the temple has three separate parts (remember that Jesus also called ~~hid~~ body a "temple"). Commenting on the Apostle Paul's prayer that ''"your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"'', (I ~~Thessalonians~~ )", Irenaeus of Lyons (d. 202 A.D.) said,		In contrast to this, William Branham, taught that there is a three-fold person of God. This is why God made an individual when he created something in his image, and is why the temple has three separate parts (remember that Jesus also called his body a "temple"). Commenting on the Apostle Paul's prayer that ''"your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"'', (I Thess. 5:23)", Irenaeus of Lyons (d. 202 A.D.) said,

	:''Now what was his object in praying that these three--that is, soul, body, and spirit-- might be preserved to the coming of the Lord, unless he was aware of the future reintegration and union of the three, and that they should be heirs of one and the same salvation? For this cause also he declares that those are "the perfect" who present unto the Lord the three component parts without offence. Those, then, are the perfect who have had the Spirit of God remaining in them, and have preserved their souls and bodies blameless, holding fast the faith of God, that is, that faith which is directed towards God, and maintaining righteous dealings with respect to their neighbours.'' (Chapter VI, Book V, Irenaeus against Heresies, Ante-Nicene Fathers)		:''Now what was his object in praying that these three--that is, soul, body, and spirit-- might be preserved to the coming of the Lord, unless he was aware of the future reintegration and union of the three, and that they should be heirs of one and the same salvation? For this cause also he declares that those are "the perfect" who present unto the Lord the three component parts without offence. Those, then, are the perfect who have had the Spirit of God remaining in them, and have preserved their souls and bodies blameless, holding fast the faith of God, that is, that faith which is directed towards God, and maintaining righteous dealings with respect to their neighbours.'' (Chapter VI, Book V, Irenaeus against Heresies, Ante-Nicene Fathers)

	William Branham often said statements such as, “God is not one like your finger” (Sermon: Lord, Show us the Father, Sept 7, 1953). This appears to be directed at doctrines he was hearing among the people at the time, even though this is not the current ~~official definition~~ of the United Pentecostal Church. Websites such as FatherJesus.com are evidence of this extreme Oneness view that Jesus is God the Father. In contrast, William Branham taught that there is a threefold being to God, but God is not three individuals nor so singular that the Son of God is God the Father.		William Branham often said statements such as, “God is not one like your finger” (Sermon: Lord, Show us the Father, Sept 7, 1953). This appears to be directed at doctrines he was hearing among the people at the time, even though this is not the current doctrine of the United Pentecostal Church. Websites such as FatherJesus.com are evidence of this extreme Oneness view that Jesus is God the Father. In contrast, William Branham taught that there is a threefold being to God, but God is not three individuals nor so singular that the Son of God is God the Father.


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	The biggest problem with saying “I believe God is in three persons” or “I believe in Oneness” is that these doctrines relate to significant denominations, and may change over time – just like the meaning of the word “person” has changed since the third century A.D. The Bible, will not change. As a result of this, the most essential elements in maintaining correct doctrine are access to an accurate translation of the Bible, prayer, and fellowship.		The biggest problem with saying “I believe God is in three persons” or “I believe in Oneness” is that these doctrines relate to significant denominations, and may change over time – just like the meaning of the word “person” has changed since the third century A.D. The Bible, however, will not change. As a result of this, the most essential elements in maintaining correct doctrine are access to an accurate translation of the Bible, prayer, and fellowship.