Irenaeus - Revision history

Admin: /* Against Heresies */

2022-05-18T23:44:48Z

Against Heresies

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	:''For they can neither confer sight on the blind, nor hearing on the deaf, nor chase away all sorts of demons--[none, indeed,] except those that are sent into others by themselves, if they can even do so much as this. Nor can they cure the weak, or the lame, or the paralytic, or those who are distressed in any other part of the body, as has often been done in regard to bodily infinity. Nor can they furnish effective remedies for those external accidents which may occur. And so far are they from being able to raise the dead, as the Lord raised them, and the apostles did by means of prayer, and as has been frequently done in the brotherhood on account of some necessity--the entire Church in that particular locality entreating [the boon] with much fasting and prayer, the spirit of the dead man has returned, and he has been bestowed in answer to the prayers of the saints--that they do not even believe this can be possibly be done, [and hold] that the resurrection from the dead(3) is simply an acquaintance with that truth which they proclaim.''(Vol. I Ante-Nicene Fathers 407)		:''For they can neither confer sight on the blind, nor hearing on the deaf, nor chase away all sorts of demons--[none, indeed,] except those that are sent into others by themselves, if they can even do so much as this. Nor can they cure the weak, or the lame, or the paralytic, or those who are distressed in any other part of the body, as has often been done in regard to bodily infinity. Nor can they furnish effective remedies for those external accidents which may occur. And so far are they from being able to raise the dead, as the Lord raised them, and the apostles did by means of prayer, and as has been frequently done in the brotherhood on account of some necessity--the entire Church in that particular locality entreating [the boon] with much fasting and prayer, the spirit of the dead man has returned, and he has been bestowed in answer to the prayers of the saints--that they do not even believe this can be possibly be done, [and hold] that the resurrection from the dead(3) is simply an acquaintance with that truth which they proclaim.''(Vol. I Ante-Nicene Fathers 407)

			Irenaeus described the serpent's seed doctrine that was present in his day as follows:

			:''Eve listened to this as if it had proceeded from a son of God, and yielded an easy belief. She also persuaded Adam to eat of the tree regarding which God had said that they should not eat of it. They then declare that, on their thus eating, they attained to the knowledge of that power which is above all, and departed from those who had created them. When Prunicus perceived that the powers were thus baffled by their own creature, she greatly rejoiced, and again cried out, that since the father was incorruptible, he (Ialdabaoth) who formerly called himself the father was a liar; and that, while Anthropos and the first woman (the Spirit) existed previously, this one (Eve) sinned by committing adultery.''<ref>Irenaeus, ''Against Heresies, Book I, Chapter XXX — Doctrines of the Ophites and Sethians''</ref>

			:''Wherefore I have laboured to bring forward, and make clearly manifest, the utterly ill-conditioned carcase of this miserable little fox.2984 For there will not now be need of many words to overturn their system of doctrine, when it has been made manifest to all. It is as when, on a beast hiding itself in a wood, and by rushing forth from it is in the habit of destroying multitudes, one who beats round the wood and thoroughly explores it, so as to compel the animal to break cover, does not strive to capture it, seeing that it is truly a ferocious beast; but those present can then watch and avoid its assaults, and can cast darts at it from all sides, and wound it, and finally slay that destructive brute. So, in our case, since we have brought their hidden mysteries, which they keep in silence among themselves, to the light, it will not now be necessary to use many words in destroying their system of opinions. For it is now in thy power, and in the power of all thy associates, to familiarize yourselves with what has been said, to overthrow their wicked and undigested doctrines, and to set forth doctrines agreeable to the truth. Since then the case is so, I shall, according to promise, and as my ability serves, labour to overthrow them, by refuting them all in the following book. Even to give an account of them is a tedious affair, as thou seest.2985 But I shall furnish means for overthrowing them, by meeting all their opinions in the order in which they have been described, that I may not only expose the wild beast to view, but may inflict wounds upon it from every side.<ref>Irenaeus, ''Against Heresies, Book I, Chapter XXXI — Doctrines of the Cainites''</ref>

	=Irenaeus' Theology=		=Irenaeus' Theology=

Admin: /* William Branham disagreed with Irenaeus */

2022-05-18T23:22:00Z

William Branham disagreed with Irenaeus

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	:''Now there are two thoughts on what the Nicolaitanes were. It is said by some that they were a group of apostates who had as their founder, Nicholas of Antioch, a proselyte, who became one of the seven deacons at Jerusalem. They had pagan feasts and were most unchaste in their behaviour. They taught that in order to master sensuality one would have to know by experience the whole range of it at first. Naturally they gave way to such abandon that their degradation was complete. Thus they had applied to them the two Old Testament names that symbolized such extravagances: Balaam and Jezebel. Since Balaam corrupted the people and thus conquered them, it was said that Nicholas did likewise. This group was supposedly forced out of Ephesus and found a place of establishment in Pergamos.		:''Now there are two thoughts on what the Nicolaitanes were. It is said by some that they were a group of apostates who had as their founder, Nicholas of Antioch, a proselyte, who became one of the seven deacons at Jerusalem. They had pagan feasts and were most unchaste in their behaviour. They taught that in order to master sensuality one would have to know by experience the whole range of it at first. Naturally they gave way to such abandon that their degradation was complete. Thus they had applied to them the two Old Testament names that symbolized such extravagances: Balaam and Jezebel. Since Balaam corrupted the people and thus conquered them, it was said that Nicholas did likewise. This group was supposedly forced out of Ephesus and found a place of establishment in Pergamos.

	''But the problem about this belief is that it is not true. There is absolutely no history for it. It is at best tradition. To adopt such a view would make the church age of Ephesus absolutely historical with no bearing upon today. This is not true, for whatever starts in the early church must continue in every age until it is finally blessed and exalted by God or destroyed as an unclean thing in the lake of fire. That this tradition is actually against Scripture, simply note that in Revelation 2:2, the Ephesian Church could NOT BEAR the evil ones. They thus had to put them out, or it would not make sense to say they could not bear them. If they did not put them out, then they were bearing them. Now in verse six, it says that they hated their deeds. So this Nicolaitane group remained a part of the first age, doing their deeds. The deeds were hated, but the people were not rendered impotent. Thus we see seeds in Ephesus that will continue and will become a doctrine that will go right up to, and into, the lake of fire.<ref>EPHESIAN.CHURCH.AGE - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.3</ref>		:''But the problem about this belief is that it is not true. There is absolutely no history for it. It is at best tradition. To adopt such a view would make the church age of Ephesus absolutely historical with no bearing upon today. This is not true, for whatever starts in the early church must continue in every age until it is finally blessed and exalted by God or destroyed as an unclean thing in the lake of fire. That this tradition is actually against Scripture, simply note that in Revelation 2:2, the Ephesian Church could NOT BEAR the evil ones. They thus had to put them out, or it would not make sense to say they could not bear them. If they did not put them out, then they were bearing them. Now in verse six, it says that they hated their deeds. So this Nicolaitane group remained a part of the first age, doing their deeds. The deeds were hated, but the people were not rendered impotent. Thus we see seeds in Ephesus that will continue and will become a doctrine that will go right up to, and into, the lake of fire.<ref>EPHESIAN.CHURCH.AGE - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.3</ref>

	Clarence Larkin was of the view that:		Clarence Larkin was of the view that:

Admin at 14:07, 22 December 2021

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	In his writings, Irenaeus cites from most of the New Testament canon, as well as the noncanonical works 1 Clement and The Shepherd of Hermas; however, he makes no references to Philemon, 2 Peter, 3 John or Jude. Irenaeus was also the first Christian writer to list all four of the now canonical Gospels as divinely-inspired.		In his writings, Irenaeus cites from most of the New Testament canon, as well as the noncanonical works 1 Clement and The Shepherd of Hermas; however, he makes no references to Philemon, 2 Peter, 3 John or Jude. Irenaeus was also the first Christian writer to list all four of the now canonical Gospels as divinely-inspired.

	Polycarp and Anticles (an earlier Bishop in Rome) had reached a compromise regarding the date of the celebration of Easter that let each church decide for itself. However, a subsequent Bishop in Rome named Victor suddenly excommunicated all the churches in Asia Minor for disagreeing with his interpretation regarding the date of the celebration of Easter (the Sunday after the passover vs. the Jewish date of the Passover). As a result, Irenaeus addressed Victor in a letter (only a fragment of which remains), warning him that if he persisted in the course on which he had entered, the effect would be to rend the Catholic Church in pieces. In 190 or 191, Irenaeus travelled to Rome to meet with Victor, who received and accepted the rebukes of Irenaeus. The debate of the date of the passover was treated independently by each Church intil the Council of ~~Nicea~~.		Polycarp and Anticles (an earlier Bishop in Rome) had reached a compromise regarding the date of the celebration of Easter that let each church decide for itself. However, a subsequent Bishop in Rome named Victor suddenly excommunicated all the churches in Asia Minor for disagreeing with his interpretation regarding the date of the celebration of Easter (the Sunday after the passover vs. the Jewish date of the Passover). As a result, Irenaeus addressed Victor in a letter (only a fragment of which remains), warning him that if he persisted in the course on which he had entered, the effect would be to rend the Catholic Church in pieces. In 190 or 191, Irenaeus travelled to Rome to meet with Victor, who received and accepted the rebukes of Irenaeus. The debate of the date of the passover was treated independently by each Church intil the Council of Nicaea.

	Nothing is known for certain about the date or circumstances of Ireneaus death. Some speculate he died of old age, and other speculate that he was martyred in the persecutions under the Roman Emperor Severus. Irenaeus was said to have been buried under the church of Saint John's in Lyon, but the tomb was destroyed in 1562 by the Calvinist Huguenots.		Nothing is known for certain about the date or circumstances of Ireneaus death. Some speculate he died of old age, and other speculate that he was martyred in the persecutions under the Roman Emperor Severus. Irenaeus was said to have been buried under the church of Saint John's in Lyon, but the tomb was destroyed in 1562 by the Calvinist Huguenots.

Admin at 23:48, 23 August 2015

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 {{7 Messengers}}
 '''Irenaeus''' (Circa 130-202) was bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul, which is now Lyon, France.  He was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John, who was a disciple of Jesus Christ.  Irenaeus wrote extensively on the nature and unity of God, fighting bitterly against heresies and the integration of paganism into Christianity.  Irenaeus also corrected the church in Rome on occasion, and testified that supernatural signs accompanied his ministry and all the believing church, including the raising of the dead, healing of the sick, prophecies, and visions.
 =William Branham disagreed with Irenaeus=
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 #Given Irenaeus’ view that this was a group of people following a literal man named Nicolas, would this not indicate that he viewed the writings of Revelation as literal instructions to a literal church in Asia Minor, rather than a dispensational prophecy?
 #William Branham rejected the view of Irenaeus (in the Church Age Book), because such a view would be contradictory to dispensational theology. In fact, is there any evidence that the early church or the church in general adhered to a dispensational interpretation of the church ages before John Darby in the 1800s, who is generally known as “The Father of Dispensationalism,” and influenced Scofield who heavily influenced both Clarence Larkin and William Branham?
 =Against Heresies=

Admin at 16:57, 10 October 2014

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	Nothing is known for certain about the date or circumstances of Ireneaus death. Some speculate he died of old age, and other speculate that he was martyred in the persecutions under the Roman Emperor Severus. Irenaeus was said to have been buried under the church of Saint John's in Lyon, but the tomb was destroyed in 1562 by the Calvinist Huguenots.		Nothing is known for certain about the date or circumstances of Ireneaus death. Some speculate he died of old age, and other speculate that he was martyred in the persecutions under the Roman Emperor Severus. Irenaeus was said to have been buried under the church of Saint John's in Lyon, but the tomb was destroyed in 1562 by the Calvinist Huguenots.

			=William Branham disagreed with Irenaeus=

			:''So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the '''Nicolaitans''', which thing I hate.<ref>Revelation 2:15 (KJV) </ref>

			So, the term “Nicolaitans,” what does it mean?

			According to William Branham:

			:''Now there are two thoughts on what the Nicolaitanes were. It is said by some that they were a group of apostates who had as their founder, Nicholas of Antioch, a proselyte, who became one of the seven deacons at Jerusalem. They had pagan feasts and were most unchaste in their behaviour. They taught that in order to master sensuality one would have to know by experience the whole range of it at first. Naturally they gave way to such abandon that their degradation was complete. Thus they had applied to them the two Old Testament names that symbolized such extravagances: Balaam and Jezebel. Since Balaam corrupted the people and thus conquered them, it was said that Nicholas did likewise. This group was supposedly forced out of Ephesus and found a place of establishment in Pergamos.

			''But the problem about this belief is that it is not true. There is absolutely no history for it. It is at best tradition. To adopt such a view would make the church age of Ephesus absolutely historical with no bearing upon today. This is not true, for whatever starts in the early church must continue in every age until it is finally blessed and exalted by God or destroyed as an unclean thing in the lake of fire. That this tradition is actually against Scripture, simply note that in Revelation 2:2, the Ephesian Church could NOT BEAR the evil ones. They thus had to put them out, or it would not make sense to say they could not bear them. If they did not put them out, then they were bearing them. Now in verse six, it says that they hated their deeds. So this Nicolaitane group remained a part of the first age, doing their deeds. The deeds were hated, but the people were not rendered impotent. Thus we see seeds in Ephesus that will continue and will become a doctrine that will go right up to, and into, the lake of fire.<ref>EPHESIAN.CHURCH.AGE - CHURCH.AGE.BOOK CPT.3</ref>

			Clarence Larkin was of the view that:

			:''They were not a sect, but a party in the Church who were trying to establish a “Priestly Order.” Probably trying to model the Church after the Old Testament order of Priests, Levites, and common people. This is seen in the meaning of the word, which is from “Niko” to conquer, to overthrow, and “Laos” the people or laity. The object was to establish a “holy Order of Men,” and place them over the laity, which was foreign to the New Testament plan, and call them not pastors, but – Clergy, Bishops, Archbishops, Cardinals, Popes.<ref>Clarence Larkin, “The Book of Revelation,” Chapter 2.</ref>

			And Irenaeus position was as follow:

			:''The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: “But this thou has, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.<ref>Irenaeus, “Against Heresies”, Chapter 26.</ref>

			So, given that William Branham’s interpretation agrees with that previously espoused by Larkin, but disagrees with that given by Irenaeus, there are a couple of points to consider.

			#Why did William Branham [[Plagiarism\|adopt the view of Larkin]], as he did for so much of his dispensational teachings?
			#Why would the seventh church age messenger (as William Branham thought himself) differ from the second church age messenger (which is who William Branham stated that Irenaeus was)?
			#Given that Irenaeus was born somewhere around 125 AD and wrote “Against Heresies” somewhere around 180 AD and spent a large portion of his life studying the issues, would not his assertion that this was a group of people who followed practices of a literal man named Nicolas carry some validity? William Branham says that the view of Irenaeus is a tradition at best, so had Ireneaus started or adhered to such a tradition so soon after the book of Revelation was given? That would hardly seem appropriate for “the messenger of that hour” (as William Branham said that he was).
			#Given Irenaeus’ view that this was a group of people following a literal man named Nicolas, would this not indicate that he viewed the writings of Revelation as literal instructions to a literal church in Asia Minor, rather than a dispensational prophecy?
			#William Branham rejected the view of Irenaeus (in the Church Age Book), because such a view would be contradictory to dispensational theology. In fact, is there any evidence that the early church or the church in general adhered to a dispensational interpretation of the church ages before John Darby in the 1800s, who is generally known as “The Father of Dispensationalism,” and influenced Scofield who heavily influenced both Clarence Larkin and William Branham?

	=Against Heresies=		=Against Heresies=

Believethesign at 07:14, 21 July 2014

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	{{~~Church ages~~}}		{{7 Messengers}}
	'''Irenaeus''' (Circa 130-202) was bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul, which is now Lyon, France. He was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John, who was a disciple of Jesus Christ. Irenaeus wrote extensively on the nature and unity of God, fighting bitterly against heresies and the integration of paganism into Christianity. Irenaeus also corrected the church in Rome on occasion, and testified that supernatural signs accompanied his ministry and all the believing church, including the raising of the dead, healing of the sick, prophecies, and visions.		'''Irenaeus''' (Circa 130-202) was bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul, which is now Lyon, France. He was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John, who was a disciple of Jesus Christ. Irenaeus wrote extensively on the nature and unity of God, fighting bitterly against heresies and the integration of paganism into Christianity. Irenaeus also corrected the church in Rome on occasion, and testified that supernatural signs accompanied his ministry and all the believing church, including the raising of the dead, healing of the sick, prophecies, and visions.

Believethesign: /* Irenaeus and Rome */

2014-07-21T00:30:38Z

Irenaeus and Rome

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	Irenaeus writes that this succession of Bishops in Rome is as follows: Peter and Paul, Linus, Anacletus, Clement, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telephorus, Hyginus, Pius, Anicetus, Sorer, and Eleutherius being the 12th from the apostles.		Irenaeus writes that this succession of Bishops in Rome is as follows: Peter and Paul, Linus, Anacletus, Clement, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telephorus, Hyginus, Pius, Anicetus, Sorer, and Eleutherius being the 12th from the apostles.

	While the Roman Catholic Church has used this succession to highlight these men as Popes, and to establish the succesion of ~~futre~~ Popes and the universal authority of the Church, some important factors are missing from this conclusion.		While the Roman Catholic Church has used this succession to highlight these men as Popes, and to establish the succesion of future Popes and the universal authority of the Church, some important factors are missing from this conclusion.

	#Irenaeus was only the third from the Apostles, through John and Polycarp only.		#Irenaeus was only the third from the Apostles, through John and Polycarp only.
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	#Finally, the apostolic tradition was preserved in Rome by "those faithful men who exist everywhere" - not by the Bishops of Rome themselves. Another translation of this last line of Irenaeus supporting the apostolic succsession is as follows: ''"On account of the chief magistracy(2) [of the empire], the faithful from all parts, representing every Church, are obliged to resort to Rome, and there to come together; so that [it is the distinction of this Church that], in it, the tradition of the apostles has been preserved by Christians gathered together out of all the Churches."''		#Finally, the apostolic tradition was preserved in Rome by "those faithful men who exist everywhere" - not by the Bishops of Rome themselves. Another translation of this last line of Irenaeus supporting the apostolic succsession is as follows: ''"On account of the chief magistracy(2) [of the empire], the faithful from all parts, representing every Church, are obliged to resort to Rome, and there to come together; so that [it is the distinction of this Church that], in it, the tradition of the apostles has been preserved by Christians gathered together out of all the Churches."''

	Once the Church in Rome began exerting its influence over the other churches, it lost its Apostolic succession. This was attempted by the Bishop Victor, but he was corrected by Irenaeus, never to attempt this heresy again.		Once the Church in Rome began exerting its influence over the other churches, it lost its Apostolic succession. This was attempted by the Bishop Victor, but he was corrected by Irenaeus, never to attempt this heresy again.


	=References=		=References=